NEW DELHI: Prime Minister Narendra Modi, in a rare and expansive conversation with AI researcher and podcaster Lex Fridman, discussed leadership, governance, and India’s progress. However, one of the most anticipated moments of the nearly three-hour discussion was when Fridman directly questioned PM Modi about the 2002 Gujarat riots—an episode that has followed him throughout his political career.
Fridman acknowledged that India’s Supreme Court had twice cleared PM Modi of any involvement in the violence but asked how Modi viewed the lessons from that period.
‘A fake narrative was spread’: PM Modi on the Gujarat riots
PM Modi called the discourse surrounding the 2002 riots a deliberate attempt to create a false narrative.
“Before 2002, Gujarat had witnessed over 250 riots, and communal violence was frequent,” Modi explained. “The world was also witnessing a surge in terrorist activities. The Kandahar hijacking had happened in 1999, the Red Fort was attacked in 2000, and our Parliament was attacked in 2001. It was a period of immense security challenges.”
He emphasized that since 2002, Gujarat has not seen a single major riot, crediting his administration’s governance model for ensuring long-term peace.
“The perception that these were the biggest riots ever is actually misinformation,” PM Modi said. “The reality is that Gujarat saw some of the worst communal clashes before 2002. Yet, those never became international headlines the way 2002 did.”
Modi also highlighted how, despite his government’s efforts to bring stability, political opponents and certain sections of the media continued to malign his image.
“There was a systematic attempt to spread falsehoods. But ultimately, justice prevailed, and the courts cleared my name,” he said.
Modi on criticism: ‘The soul of democracy’
Fridman followed up by asking Modi how he perceives criticism, particularly when it comes to sensitive topics like the Gujarat riots.
“Criticism is the soul of democracy,” Modi responded. “Our scriptures say: ‘Always keep your critics close,’ because they help you improve.”
However, he was quick to differentiate between constructive criticism and what he called “sensationalism” in modern political discourse.
“Genuine criticism is based on research and analysis. Unfortunately, today’s media and political opponents often take shortcuts, making unfounded accusations instead of engaging in thoughtful critique,” he said. “The references you’re giving, they are allegations, not criticism.”
Modi suggested that much of the opposition he faced over the years stemmed from ideological biases rather than factual concerns.
“Those who criticized me for the riots did not care about Gujarat’s history of violence before 2002. They were not interested in the transformation that happened after,” he said. “They only wanted to create a narrative that suited their agenda.”
Modi on governance: ‘From appeasement to aspiration’
Moving beyond the riots, Modi outlined what he sees as his administration’s biggest achievement—shifting India’s political culture from “appeasement politics” to “aspirational politics.”
“For decades, politics was about appeasement—keeping certain groups happy for votes. We changed that. We focused on aspirational politics, where governance is about delivering results for everyone, not just selected communities,” he said.
Modi reiterated his government’s guiding principle: “Sabka Saath, Sabka Vikas, Sabka Vishwas, Sabka Prayas” (Together with everyone, development for all, trust from all, and efforts by everyone).
“We have ensured that governance reaches the last person in the queue, regardless of caste, creed, or religion,” he added. “Whether it’s housing, electricity, sanitation, or digital payments, every Indian benefits. That is true development.”
Final thoughts: Modi on leadership and India’s future
Fridman asked Modi what he believed was the most crucial quality in a leader.
“A leader must have a vision and the courage to implement it,” Modi replied. “In a country like India, with its diversity and complexity, leadership is not just about making decisions—it’s about ensuring that every decision is in the nation’s interest, not just for immediate gains but for the long term.”
He also reflected on India’s rise as a global power, emphasizing that the country was no longer content with being a follower but was actively shaping global discourse.
“The 21st century belongs to India. We are not just participating in global affairs; we are leading the way,” he said.